ODIN Advisory Council Meeting

April 2 and 3, 1998

Mayville State University, Mayville

Council members present (*indicates voting representative):

Lila Pedersen, Chair - UND Library of the Health Sciences

*Phyllis Bratton - Jamestown College

*Frank D'Andraia - UND *Darryl Podoll - Valley City State

*Mike Jaugstetter - State Library *Bernnett Reinke- Dickinson State (proxy)

*Sharon Evensen - UND Lake Region *Beth Bakke Stenehjem - Hillsboro

*Gary Gott - UND Law *Judy Rieke - UND Lib of the Health Sci

*Larry Greenwood - Minot State *Ted Smith - Supreme Court Library

*Kelly Hell - UNDWilliston *Jerald Stewart - Wahpeton State College

*Betty Karaim - Mayville State *Beth Postema - Fargo Public

*Dennis Page - Grand Forks Public *Jan Wysocki - NDSU Bottineau

Council members absent:

Dickinson High School

Bismarck State

Others present:

Dale Vetter - UND Computer Center Liz Mason - Fargo Public

Lisa Bruere - MINITEX Rhonda Schwartz - UND Law

Mark England - NDSU Kaaren Pupino - UND Law

Shelby Harken - UND Cherie Stoltman - UND Law

Gary Johnson - SDLN Cindy Larson - State Library

Tony Stukel - ODIN Eileen Kopren - Dickinson State

Charlie Folkner - NDUS system Mary Ann Leavitt - UND Law

Mike Safratowich - UND Health Sci Ann Pederson - Altru Medical Lib

Nadine Kotowicz - UND Computer Center Tom Bremer - NDSU

Theresa Norton - UND Health Sci Richard Bovard - NDSU

Phil Mulvaney - NSU Aberdeen, SD Jane Kolbe - SD State Library

Warren Wilson - SD Board of Regents Steve Marquardt - SDSU Brookings

Jane Larson - Vermillion Public Library, SD Becky Bell - ALS/PALS


Action Items

1. Vendor Study Task Force meeting April 21. They will work with Lila and Tony on how to proceed with vendor evaluation and selection, especially on whether to adjust the time frame.

2. Tony will develop firm guidelines on where different types of information will be posted. ODINFO is best for immediate news, the ODIN Staff WebPage ( will be used to post general News, and the ODIN HomePage is more public oriented.

3. Planning Committee will meet May 13th. An additional charge is prioritizing projects and giving special attention to implementation of Z39.50.

4. WebPALS Implementation will be tested from 2-3pm CDT or 1-2pm MDT next Wednesday, April 8. If successful WebPALS will be introduced publicly during National Library Week (April 20-24). Publications committee, Judy and Betty, plus Frank and in consultation with Mike Jaugstetter will work on publicity.

5. HECN needs budget plan for ODIN by April 30th.

6. Nadine must be notified when there are any changes in Internet service providers, tell ODIN office so that they can make the IP changes.

7. New chair needed for Reference Users Group.

8. Elections for Chair-elect will be called for at next meeting. Lila=s second term is over after the spring meeting 1999.

9. Date and time of next meeting will be decided and distributed later.

10. Representatives from the SD & ND task forces will meet with MINITEX at OCLC User Group Meeting June 3rd. The objective is to discuss procedures for shared database purchases including licensing agreements and contracts with MINITEX.

11. Next meeting of SD & ND Task Force will be set for some time in June.

12. Explore access to bibliographic records for full text titles through IAC.

13. Money from legislature for NDSU=s migration to ODIN.

14. Explore access to additional databases for ODIN system. Interest was expressed in ERIC ($2,000) and the Health Reference Center ($5,920). The amounts represent the cost to ODIN.

15. Vendor Study Task Force will work with Tony and Lila on a schedule to propose to the Advisory Council for selecting and migrating to the new system.


Chair Lila Pedersen called the meeting to order at 1:10 pm. She welcomed the visitors from South Dakota and made note of the first ever SD-ND Joint Task Force on Collaboration. After introductions, she announced changes to the agenda.

Approval of minutes from last meeting. Dennis Page moved for adoption, Frank D=Andraia seconded. They were approved as submitted.

Update on committee assignments. Changes of note: Planning Committee - Liz Mason, Fargo Public, replaces Nann Hilyard, and Fran Fisher is a new member. Dennis Page is working with the committee on the issue of studying the fee structure. Vendor Study Task Force: Shelby Harken is now the chair and Dave Haney is a new member.

SDLN/ODIN Task Force on Collaboration Report. Gary Gott is chair of the ND Task Force. Phil Mulvaney, Chair of the SD Task Force, reported on the meeting held in the morning. Better service and lower costs are goals of collaborative efforts. There was lots of discussion on a new system. No one wants less functionality. Systems available appear to have less than PALS currently has. June 30, 2002 is now the ending date, although unofficially, for PALS support. The SD members developed some models for cooperation on a new system. The group discussed common time lines for the process. They are currently difficult to determine, because vendor products are incomplete. Representatives of the Task Force (two state librarians and others to be appointed) will meet with MINITEX in Sioux Falls at OCLC User Group Meeting, June 3. The purpose is to discuss the problems with cooperative purchases of databases, including turn-around time, short lead time, lack of license information for individual libraries. Other areas of collaboration discussed were joint training, staff exchanges, and a joint listserv. The Task Force is planning to work on a joint evaluation tool of the RFPs for the new system. They agreed to meet again this summer probably in mid-June. The group will continue to get acquainted and eliminate barriers to collaboration.

Minnesota System Study: Lisa Bruere, MINITEX and Becky Bell, ALS/PALS. Lisa distributed the draft revision of the MnLINK Implementation Schedule. The Vendor Evaluation Team (VET) realizes there will be slippage in the original time frames. Becky reported on the vendor demonstrations held in Minneapolis in January and February. She discussed weaknesses and strengths of the various systems that she saw during the public portion. The user groups met separately and in more detail. The VET has met and their recommendation will be posted April 15. Becky expects that the sample revision time line will be revised again. The schedule gives time for AFurther research.@

Tony asked for more information on the working groups. Each had chair appointed by the Library Planning Task Force, all had representatives from various library types, and had fewer than 10 people. They involved a broad cross section of librarians, not necessarily all PALS or LUMINA users. They included those who had other systems as well. Each working group focused on one subsystem. Each vendor met with groups for 2 hour time slots to give specialized presentations. The working groups used e-mail and telephone conferencing before the demos. Their impressions and information was given to the VET. Gary Gott asked if they used PALS has a benchmark? Becky said that PALS librarians did that, but it was broader because of the other libraries represented. Several comments were made about the inadequacies of the systems available. Becky pointed out the new systems demand much higher end machines for both public and staff. Must all be able to run Windows 95 or NT. Part of the problem with new systems is that the companies can not keep staff to do development. PALS support will be at least through June 30, 2002, although June 30, 2001 is still the official end date. Gary Gott asked if ND & SD would be able to negotiate continued support and development through PALS. Becky will take that and other questions back to PALS. Gary Johnson=s uninformed opinion is that PALS won=t continue indefinitely, but that it will continue longer than originally discussed. He believes the Dakotas could keep their systems going for at least a year after PALS support ends without new developments. Gary Gott said that if time frames are extended, it might give new systems time to catch up. Frank D=Andraia asked if the demonstrations here should be structured differently? Becky said that the structure might be the same, but that the instructions to vendors and what to include might be different. She sees a major problem of vendors is perceiving consortia and what they need.

Vendor Study Task Force: Shelby Harken, Chair, reported that responses were received from VTLS, DRA, Endeavor, Gaylord, GEAC, CGI, CARL, and 2 asked for time extensions (Ex Libris & Ameritech). The Task Force is asking user groups to look at their wish lists and match them to items distributed in the RFI. The Task Force is meeting April 20. Vendor demos are being planned for this summer. The RFP will be released in late December 1998, with the follow-up evaluation and more demos during the 1999 summer. Selection will follow and installation can begin in 2000. This time line may be changed with the news from PALS about extending service until 2002. The responses revealed that most systems are still under development with completion scheduled for late >98 or early 1999. Most are very weak on consortia and ILL issues. Shelby will post the system information to ODINFO. The directions to sign on are on the ODIN staff page ( Tony said some systems did send electronic copies of the RFI, and he will distribute them to directors. Tony also has copies of vendor responses to SD RFI. Charlie asked if the bottom line is that no one has functionality that we have now. Shelby said yes. Our timeline will need to be revised also.

Presentation to Dale Vetter. Lila recognized the assistance and support of Dale Vetter, UND Computer Center. He will be retiring in June of this year. A plaque of appreciation from ODIN will be given to him.

Scheduling of vendor demonstrations: Lila Pedersen. The plan is to invite vendors for educational demonstrations. These demos should provide an overview.

a. Proposed demo range of dates: July 20-August 5

b. Format: Minnesota had them for 1 day for demos, had rooms for each module, did have some overlap.

c. Location: Several possible sites were suggested including Jamestown, Grand Forks, Fargo, and Bismarck.

d. Vendors: may need to be more representative than complete. May want to see some contrasts. Vendor Study Task Force will make recommendations on vendors to invite.

e. Audience: ODIN is very varied in terms of types of libraries and positions to be represented. There was discussion as to whether South Dakota librarians and staff would be interested enough to send some people.

The discussion then centered on the usefulness of the demonstrations. The idea is to educate everyone who doesn=t have an opportunity to look at products at conferences, etc. It is also an opportunity for us to tell vendors what we need and want. Lisa underscored the need for vendors to be educated in consortia matters. Frank suggested guidelines and checklists be given to vendors, so that they know our expectations. Charlie reminded us as to the importance of time and money. Gary Gott expressed concern that the demonstrations are premature. Charlie suggested a different route if our main purpose is to educate them. He recommended sending a group to them and tell them what we need. Tony suggested sending people to meet with vendors at ALA . Lila tabled the discussion until tomorrow.

SDLN Report: Gary Johnson validated the cooperative efforts between ND & SD. He thinks the vendors will eliminate the Avaporware,@ and that we need to look at ways that we can make the lack of consortia knowledge work. ND & SD are in good position in terms of network configurations. SD 100% TCP/IP. They purchased x.12 & are trying to implement electronic invoicing and claiming. They are finding it a difficult process. They developed a new library called IAC for their newly created bibliographic records for full text titles in IAC. They are investigating making them available to other libraries. They loaded the LC authority file and are getting ready to make global changes for libraries who want it. No new members since last meeting. Corrected problems with WebPALS. Usage has been increasing, and it has been stable.

AAround the Table@ Reports - see Appendix A.


The meeting adjourned at 4:55 pm on Thursday and resumed at 8:05 am on Friday, April 3.


Planning Committee: Frank D=Andraia reported that the committee met about the finance and assessment costs currently in place. The membership of the committee changed. Nann Hilyard left and Liz Mason, Fargo Public replaced her. Fran Fisher, NDSU, is a new member. Dennis Page, Grand Forks Public Library, is now participating in discussions about assessments. Shelby attends as a resource person. All reports and minutes from meetings are at This address will be linked to the ODIN staff web page shortly. The committee has information about other cost models used by other consortia. They are in the process of gathering information on administrative costs for ODIN. They are meeting by conference call as much as possible. Others can sit in on conference call, just notify Frank if you are interested. The committee was asked if they have come up with projects for ODIN. Frank responded that they haven=t developed a list yet.

ODIN Directors Report: Tony Stukel

1. Database demonstrations - arranged some, including Electric Library, Congressional Compass (through MINITEX), and EbscoHost. Some libraries did not receive information about these trials. Tony will make sure communications to ODIN Directors indicate when items need to be forwarded.

2. ODIN News - will be posted on a web site (staff page: instead of putting news on the old system screens. He needs feedback by May 1 on this idea. When Nadine has a need to communicate she can only use ODINFO. That gets to people immediately, and it should be used for immediate news. Tony will work on which information uses what medium. Gary Gott suggested that ODINFO be used for notifying people about committee meetings and announcements. Staff should be encouraged to sign on.

3. Budget Update - Within the total ODIN budget there is flexibility in the use of funds between budget catagories. There have been noexpenditures for special UNYSIS projects this fiscal year. The new position hasn't been advertised, and shouldn't be impacted by UND hiring freeze. Classification for new position not yet decided, but will probably

be Analyst II. House Bill 1034: Tony will share document (ODIN portion) and work with directors in regard to short, medium, and long range plans for future plan updates. It is more of an annual review now than biennial. Charlie suggested that if ODIN has a big project going, someone on the project team needs to keep the legislature informed.

4. Authorities Update - will be included in Nadine=s report. The update schedule for authorities needs to be decided. By whom?

5. Z39.50 Update - Becky will give us prices. Lila asked about installation time. Tony wants to finish WebPALS and authorities first. Lila asked the Planning Committee to prioritize projects and give special attention to implementation of Z39.50 at their next meeting.

6. ODIN WebPALS - implementation in process. Tony posted questions received on FAQ on ODIN Staff Page. Some things will need to be done system wide. When IP addresses are stabilized the default will be your local library when you connect locally. Training and release issues are being discussed. From technological point of view could use it now heavily. Server should be able to handle it. Tony added memory on recommendation of SDLN and MnSCU. Some customizing is possible. WebPALS is not a replacement. It is an option. SDLN didn=t do any publicity or coordinated effort. Last fall campuses there basically showed WebPALS versus telnet. SDLN had problems with stability. Northern gave options and didn=t do any extra training. Now have dropped telnet access from their homepage. Hillsboro only shows Web version as hadn=t used the telnet. Beth saw it as a way to encourage more libraries to join ODIN. Becky worked with WALDO in their implementation and did some training for them. In MnSCU PALS libraries moved at different speeds in implementation. Once available they didn=t do a lot of training. Nadine wants more people using it at once just to make sure that system won=t crash as a form of load testing. The group decided to test on Wednesday, April 8 from 2-3 CDT, 1-2pm MDT in preparation for a roll-out for National Library Week. Publications committee, Judy and Betty, plus Frank and Mike J. as a consultant will work on publicity for roll-out.

Tony said that he was pleased with the discussions about a new system and also about the presence of colleagues from South Dakota.

Interim HECN Coordinator, Charlie Folkner - HECN Coordinator position will be dissolved. There will be NDUS CIO (Chief Information Officer) whose responsibilities will include IVN, ODIN, HECN. The CIO will also chair the Information Technology Committee and is expected to coordinate a wide spectrum of activities across ODIN, IVN, and voice communications. The job description is at: http://www.ndus.nodak.edu/jobs.html. It is being advertised in the Chronicle and on Web as part of a national recruiting effort. The deadline is May 18 and the hope is to have someone in place by 1 October. Charlie asked us to encourage applicants. Charlie intends to promote user involvement in ODIN to new CIO. Charlie plans to retire by November 26.

SAGE is the name used for new administrative system and has some ODIN connections. SAGE has been delayed due to the costs. It will be a high priority item for next biennium of legislature. Cost will be 3.4 million/year for 7 years. In the meantime, HECN will fix bugs, make changes mandated by law, and get systems up to year 2000 for administrative systems until SAGE is implemented.

Charlie advised ODIN libraries to take risks if we want to be in the lead. Our position needs to be determined: do we want to be leading edge, close follower, or a follower? Need to make a position statement on where we want to be, need to know costs, what it means, etc. It will affect us when we ask for our budget. What do we want by fiscal year 2000? Charlie suggested having vendors come to sessions like the ODIN Advisory Council to give their impressions on where technology is going.

Need to start preparing our budget to get it ready for the next biennium. NDUS has to provide a 95 % budget by governor=s demand. SAGE project and ODIN=s position are not clear. If ODIN needs more money, we must make the case that we need it. He needs the plan for the ODIN biennium budget by April 30th. The board also will probably present a needs based budget. The cabinet of NDUS has started working on priorities.

Charlie asked about year 2000 problems. Nadine thinks PALS is fine. Other libraries are not sure. Each library should appoint someone to investigate the potential problems with Year 2000.

MINITEX News: Lisa Bruere distributed a written report. Highlights: Document delivery activity to ND is 1% higher than last year. No ND libraries are participating in Academic Press= IDEAL. FirstSearch proposal for region will be released in April. They are making good progress on construction of the Access Center. There have been several trials with electronic database vendors. Prices are distributed after the trials, but they often need to be revised when libraries drop out. Information is provided through the MINITEX list serv. MINITEX will look at regional access for the IAC bibliographic records for full text.

The OCLC User Group meeting is scheduled in Sioux Falls on June 3rd. This is the beginning of a rotation among the Dakotas and the Twin Cities. Cat Me for windows Workshop will be on June 4th. OCLC looking at solutions for small libraries who don=t have full time catalogers. There will be no more maintenance of 386 machines after July 1. They are revising and phasing out maintenance agreements. After January 1, 2001 there will be no more dedicated lines. MINITEX is exploring regional access to dedicated TCP/IP consortia line to OCLC. It can be used for cataloging or FirstSearch services which includes ECO because it is considered a FirstSearch product.

Computer Center: Nadine Kotowicz distributed a written report. Implementation of WebPALS has been in several phases. Tony does all the html editing. IP addressing used to be identified in CMS, but now it needs to be done through PALS. There were problems when duplicate IP addresses were entered in PALS, so Nadine is in the process of sorting those out. There was another problem with timeouts. WebPALS has a time out of five minutes, and that overrides the timeouts in PALSTAC. Nadine apologized for bouncing system up and down, but there was no option while working on the IP addressing problems. Nadine has to know when there are any changes in Internet service providers. The ODIN office must make the IP changes to continue access to the system. Nadine distributed directions to libraries about checking IP=s.

V12 was installed 3/27/98. Nadine has a backup person now, and she will in turn serve as that person=s backup.

Authorities were loaded in October 1997. That data was current to April 1997. They are now ready to change the subject headings on the database. Tony needs to order more disk space to accommodate all the data, because the database is so large.

ALS/PALS Report: Becky Bell gave an update on the destruction of libraries due to the tornadoes in Minnesota. Development issues for PALS are still alive. She is not sure about future versions because of MnLink project. They have started work on integrating the ISO ILL standards. It needs Z39.50 installed for it to work. May be ready by next fall. Other development is on as needed basis. That may be reconsidered after the MnLink report. They still accept requests for changes.

To make ZPALS work the components must be purchased which includes $2,000 for Zserver software, $500 for Ztooklit, and $495.00 for support. They deliver the software to your server in a zipped file. The installation unzips and it becomes operational. To take advantage of searching another site, you have to have a z-client on your pc. Some examples are Bookware and Znavigator. Prices are different for those, and they need to be on each workstation. Each client has different features. You don=t need the same software as the site that you are searching. Znavigator is free and can be downloaded. ZPALS will include the ability to download MARC records.

PALSTAC ver 12R1.02 (DOS,Windows, or NT) contained several fixes. As of July 1999, the DOS version will no longer be created. Everyone should move up to one of the other versions as soon as possible. PALSTAC on a 386 will be very slow.

There is an inventory module that runs on TCP/IP. Ellen has software for testing.

The transition of support from Ameritech to MnSCU still ongoing. July 1st support will transfer to MnScu PALS. Becky thinks it is a positive move financially for PALS users. Ameritech will have no interest in PALS after July 1 except for Ztoolkit which does belong to Ameritech. There are still issues that need to be resolved. Ameritech owned the marketing and support rights. Phyllis commented that ODIN is not dying but that PALS software may be leaving.

User Group Reports

Database: Shelby Harken reported the group looked at their wish list for the new system and discussed how to use it in the evaluation of a new system. They also discussed the conversion of MARC fields. A full report will be posted on ODINFO.

Reference: Shelby for Cynthia Shabb. They discussed WebPALS and some of the questions that have been posted to the FAQ on the staff page. New questions will be forwarded to Tony. Cynthia called for a new chair, but no one volunteered. Lila will look at appointing someone.

Circulation, Eileen Kopren reported that the group shared experiences and ideas especially on inventory control. They recommend and encourage other libraries to use it. UND reported that they are using e-mail for patron notifications. They also discussed WebPALS.

Lila asked for elections at the next meeting for Chair-elect. Her term will end after next spring meeting. She also suggested that the Vendor Study Task Force work with Tony and Lila on how to proceed and whether or not the time frame needs to be adjusted. The group agreed. The next meeting will also need to be discussed.


APPENDIX A - AAround the Table@

Dennis Page, Grand Forks Public Library - looking at WebPALS, won Points of Light for PAL (Project Advancing Literacy), have handicapped terminal available.

Bernnett Reinke, Dickinson State University - using Inventory Control, FirstSearch to replace ERIC on CD-ROM and to supplement IAC.

Jerald Stewart, ND State College of Science - using FirstSearch, looked at Electronic Library, have Britannica Online.

Betty Karaim, Mayville - using Inventory Control, using FirstSearch, doing some free trials & have Britannica Online, remodeling dorms on campus to be networked and have classroom in library that is networked.

Darryl Podoll, Valley City State University - faculty and students have laptops so great interest in having electronic information, been educating people that all information is not free and that there are copyright problems. Using lots of free trials and will make decisions. Interested in SportsDiscus and might be able to purchase blocks of searches. Using FirstSearch & Britannica.

Richard Bovard, NDSU - filled positions in information technology division in the library. Institute for Regional Studies will be participating and inputting resources in Ameritech and LC project. Using Dialog Web with money given by their Foundation. Have WebPALS and users are positive. Easier for end users.

Frank D=Andraia - flood recovery continuing. Received grant money and FEMA money to replace some of the books that were lost. Special Collections is building a flood archive. Negotiating with city for policy on collections. Received a grant from Otto Bremer Foundation to build a collection on stress and trauma of disasters. Received special collection General Patton=s papers from WWI and his involvement with tanks, appraised at 1.4 million. Collection will be filmed because very fragile. Adding significant materials in Fine Arts through a new endowment. Commitment to buy more multi-cultural materials. They post career leads on their homepage for students and they are also adding information about disabilities. Betty Gard was recognized by University Meritorious award. Electronic classroom now available in the library. Re-examining off campus users of ILL.

Beth Bakke, Hillsboro Public Library and High School - still bar coding collection. Looking forward to resource sharing.

Ted Smith, State Supreme Court - ILL traffic going up. In process of networking District Courts.

Larry Greenwood, Minot State - using ERES for electronic reserve and being heavily used. Will start charging for printing off OPAC. Will install networked printing & make available as soon as WebPALS is available from all terminals. Budget was cut and came out of book budget. Demonstrated impact by showing what percentage of current items circulated. Very high and illustrated that users use current print materials.

Kelly Hell, UND Williston- doing several database trials, using inventory control & remodeling library.

Jan Wysocki, MiSU Bottineau- liked electronic library, going to network printing and will charge. Have all terminals up on Windows 95.

Sharon Evensen, UND Lake Region - networked CD-ROM products, received money to buy science & medical materials, having problems with serials module. Claiming was not working last week.

Ann Pederson, Altru-purchased PsychLit CD-ROM, joined the Copyright Clearance Center, the Altru Medical Park is coming up with WebPage & library will be represented.

Beth Postema, Fargo Public - improving networking, and looking at web based subscriptions instead of CD-ROM.

Phyllis Bratton, Jamestown College- using some free trials, FirstSearch & Britannica. Added communications major and using a database that indexes serials and provides some full text for that subject. There were administrative changes in the College. Wrote five year plan and was accepted by Administration and the library will receive special attention for funding. Hope to add a Reference Librarian position.

Mike Jaugstetter, State Library-has two programs with grant money to distribute, LSTA and Library 2004 money. LSTA funds available to all types of libraries. Working with Prairie Public Radio on various projects. They are the contact for libraries to apply for telecommunications discounts.

Gary Gott, UND Law Library - beginning to use inventory control, as Mac users they finally resolved printing problems, making some materials available electronically that were previously only in paper like old tests, class notes, bought CIS/Compass through Mid-America Law Association. Corel gave library WP suite. Their system administrator is leaving.

Lila Pedersen, UND Library of the Health Sciences - using Ariel now, use CISTI for document delivery, gift of Special Collection books from Dr. Barger now being processed, inventory control in process, WebPALS being used, no longer any 286 or 386 machines in library, full text e-journals are available through home page and will now have linkages through WebPALS.